Now that we have reviewed this last part of Chapter Two, focus on an important new development in the story or an idea that you have. Remember to use strong evidence and one passage in your response. In addition, respond (briefly) to two other student entries.
A lot has happened towards the end of chapter 2. The most notable events are when he reads the poem to his wife and her friends, and that his house is going to be burned down. I think both are extremely important and relevant to the progress of the book. He tells Mrs. Bowles "Go home and think of your first husband divorced and your second husband killed in a jet and your third husband blowing his brains out, go home and think of the dozen abortions you've had"(98). I think the reason he says all of this is because he is frustrated with the lack of thinking. He is telling her to go home and think, he is not telling her this so she actually think about those things but just does the act of thinking alone. This really sums up Montag's frustration with the rest of the world because he feels they do no thinking what so ever. I am also wondering how and why they are going to Montag's house to burn it, who told them? They obviously don't know that Montag before leaving the house moved the books out into the alleyway. "He carried the books into the backyard and hid them in the bushes near the alley fence"(98). I wonder what will happen to the books, and also what will happen to him?
ReplyDeleteI found this part really interesting also because it shows how much he has grown as a character, in the beginning of the novel he took defense to being a fireman when he was talking to Clarisse. I think the reason why he was so frustrated with the woman was obviously because they needed to understand what they did was wrong and they should feel some sympathy, but I think it might also be because he feels he needs to justify himself. He was a fireman that destroyed a lot of important knowledge and I think he's trying to make up for his actions because he feels a sense of responsibility for the loss of this knowledge
DeleteI agree with George that this a big part of chapter two. We were left with some suspense because we don't know whats happening to his house completely and if anyone is in danger. I also find it interesting how Guy yelled at Mrs. Bowles because I think he understands how bad and lost she sounds, and since he doesn't understand why she doen't care about anything, he gets very upset and yells.
Deletethe detail of the story that he hid his books in his backyard will be interesting when he confronts the firement. Will they find the books, will the burn his house without proof. I dont think he will be killed by the hound becuase they dont bring it on missions.
DeleteI think that George makes a good point, I think that the section where Montag reads the poem to the women was very important. I think that at first he got himself into a tough situation but in the end he got himself out. I think that because of Montag's strong feelings about books it made him frustrated that he had to lie about the poem and say that it was to teach them a lesson. He was urging Mrs. Bowles to leave because he could not be in that situation for much longer.
DeleteI think that Montag is definitely not the only one who is not truly happy with the world that is trying to be happy. Everyone seems to have a happy exterior but it seems like only a shell. On many occasions you hear about suicide made clear when montag references Mrs. Bowles' third husband blowing his brains out on page 98. Also in the same chapter he talks about the people who go to high ledges and jump off and there seems to be no response. On top of that I believe that when Montag came home to his wife on the ground with her pill bottle empty, she was trying to kill herself. I find it interesting if what beaty said was true, that their society was designed around happiness, then why would suicide be so prevalent.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think this whole book is really ironic. The main goal of this society is about being happy and promoting peace when in reality there is so much violence in this world along with a greater war that is being fought.
DeleteThis book is really Ironic. The people preach about how happy they are and how they enjoy life, but They really do not what life is. They aren’t enjoying their time with their loved ones and friends, they don’t explore nature, and everything moves at 100 miles an hour. It is really rather sad what they call living.
DeleteI agree that this society has in general sucidal tendancies Everyone just acts happy. You can see that when mildred's friend bursts out crying and also when Montag also realizes that he is not happy. Also one charicar mentions that she thinks that poetry and books cause suicide.
DeleteI think this is a very interesting topic because although this society is supposed to make people feel stress free and happy, they fail to notice what real happiness is really about. These people in this society block out what goes on around them and what doesn't pertain to them and seem to find happiness through what they enjoy doing and not pleasing others based off of people's inner feelings and thoughts, these people like to feel good but not do good in other words.
DeleteSam,
DeleteNice job finding this pattern in the story ... on the surface people claim to be happy, but your examples show otherwise.
Throughout the poem it has this sad and dreary tone. It begins with a nice beautiful description of something, but then outlines the negative of it. Dover Beach is a poem about misery and suffering. The last stanza of the poem is describing how the world in front of is a "land of dreams" and how its such a beautiful world. However in reality it "heath really neither joy, nor love, nor light". And were in this world surrounded by struggling and constant wars. I think this Ray Bradbury chose to incorporate this poem into the book because the people of their society live a sheltered world where they think everything is good and they're all happy. And they don't really understand anything bad in the world or feel any sympathy to anything bad either such as death. So Montag shows them this poem and is trying to tell them that this world you think is beautiful and seemingly all good isn't at all. This world doesn't really have joy, love peace, or help for pain. We are all instead standing in the dark surrounded by struggling and war. Which is exactly what's happening in this world there are people like Mildred who are struggling with depression and people are constantly dying but nobody seems to accept it or do anything about it. So afterwards Montag tells Ms. Phillips to "Go home and think how it all happened and what you ever did to stop it?"(98). Montag is trying to open people up to the bad in the world and how they need to understand that people need to do something about it.
ReplyDeleteVery Valid point. However I do not totally agree that Bradbury chose this to incorporate this poem because he wants to show how terrible the world is. I interpreted it as he wants to get the message across that in order to have happiness, one has to work for it and face struggle and encounter the horrible things in the world. Happiness is not, cannot be handed out, because that is not true happiness. Happiness is something people earn through work
DeleteI'm glad that you took the time to read and think about this poem. Out of all the poems he could have included, Ray Bradbury chose THIS one, so it must have some importance to the story and/or the world in which they live.
DeleteChapter 2 provided a lot of change to the novel, as well as revealed information that allowed us to add to our predictions for the course of the story. One important part of this chapter is the relationship between Faber and Guy. Their partnership will be interesting to follow through the story. From Guy and Faber's meeting there is a specific part that was almost snuck in by the author. Faber while talking to Montag after agreeing to teach and help Montag mentions, “a man who printed [the] college paper half century ago”(85). This man who is mentioned very briefly by faber I believe will hold a big part in this plan of Guy’s. The Printer can either can help Guy out help and reprint the books in order to help spread them, or he may not even exist anymore. And Guy could get nowhere with his planned, forced to look for another print and or print his own books which would take up time. This Printer although mentioned very minimally will hold an extremely important position in deciding the future of the Guy and Faber’s plan.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Quilan that this mentioned character will play a big role. I think that they are relying on this character to copy the books (really big job), but I hope that he is still alive/ not imprisonsed.
DeleteYes, I saw the same thing and I agree with you. This printer I am sure will play a huge role in the book to come. I wonder how they will succeed though with so much against them and so many unwilling to read books.
DeleteBefore reading Quinlin's paragraph I had not thought about the quote, "a man who printed [the] college paper half a century ago" (pg. 85) Now that I have looked closely at that passage I would agree with Quinlin. I think that the man will play a larger role in the next chapter, and I think that he will most likely be alive and he will be the one to carry on with Faber and Montag's plan.
DeleteThis chapter has been very important because Guy has developed from just reading books to actually trying to copy and save them from the world. Guy and his new partner Faber will be very interesting because I wonder how much Faber will have to stay with Guy and monitor him until he is manipulted. A good question to ask is how much of this whole partnership is because of Clarisse and Faber vs. how much is actually himself thinking about the world. I think the most importajnt development from this is if Guy will stay with his plan and become a so called "rebel" or will he be manipulated by Beatty and turn back. I also wonder if Guy can withstand the oppostion without Faber's guidance, because the whole world is against books, so if we can not keep this new plan going without being persuaded, he will not last and the plan will be ruined. The biggest challenge so far has been when Beatty and Guy where talking. Faber says, "But remember that the Captain belongs to the most dangerous enemy to truth and freedom, the solid unmoving cattle of the majority. Oh, God, the terrible tyranny of the majority"(104). This is important to the development because even if Beatty pretends to display good arguments, Guy must understand his backround. Beatty is the chief of the censrs and is a book burner, so he must consider that Beatty doesn't like books and that since he is a fireman he wants them all to burn. Beatty is a persuasive character and Faber warns him that his manipulaive traits are used to benefit the censors of the world, so Guy just has to be carfeul of this.
ReplyDeleteI thought that is was very interesting how you brought up his motivation and where it came from. I also wondered how this all really started, who did it come from? I would probably have to say Clarisse because that was the first character that Guy met that seemed to be against this society.
DeleteI thought that it was interesting when Faber is brought up and how he warns Montag that although he may sound like he hates books, he has a great amount of knowledge towards them. I believe that Captain Beatty is trying to persuade and walk Montag right into trouble and Faber is warning him of what's going on right in front of his face.
DeleteJake,
DeleteI like your focus on Montag as a character, especially where his change is coming from and how he might be able to continue forward despite Beatty's persuasive nature.
In the end of chapter 2 Montag confronts his wives friends When he talks to them, he is not just simply conversing, he is confronting society and all he grew up in, he is coming to the realization of how crazy the people around him really are. He is realizing that above all, forgetting and consuming is what thier society values most. During the champter he uses vivid words to decribe his feelings "Scare the hell out of them, thats what,scare the living daylights out". In this quote Montag is justifying what he is doing to them, to faber. His explanation is desperate and shows how in this scene, he is reacting to the realization that society is sick. He is filled with rage and disgust.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this idea of montag is realizing that the people in the society are different and seem crazy. Montag doesn't like society, as he takes actions by reading the women poems rather than joining them in watching more television.
DeleteI would agree that he his confronting his society, and I think that though it could lead to something bad for Montag, I think it could also lead to important character development for him.
DeleteThe whole theme of a main character having a sudden realization that literally everybody else doesn't have is very popular in Dystpoian stories. This instance is different in the sense that a character like Montag (an authority figure) would usually be the kind of character that would be trying as hard as he can to take down the main character who has had the realization of the insanity of their corrupt government. But instead, Montag is that character. The authority figure is that character. Which makes for an even more interesting layer of conflict. A moral layer.
DeleteChapter two was filled with a series of different events and I think the most important event was at the end of Chapter 2, when Montag went to talk to Captain Beatty. Prior to his meeting with Beatty he had gone to see the old man, Faber. When he went to see Faber they constructed a plan to make books known again. This was something that was scary for Montag but it was also something he cared strongly about. After Faber and Montag's conversation Faber decided to show Montag an electronic device that he had been working on for a while now. It is amazing that this piece resembled a walkie talkie, that we use now a days or even like a cellphone. This was what they were going to use to communicate without Beatty knowing that Faber was telling Montag what to say. As Montag said, "It was like a Seashell radio" (pg.87). I think it is so amazing that Ray Bradbury predicted such amazing things within his book. Along with the Seashell type Radio the most important part was the conversation between Beatty and Montag. I think that it was very important that Montag was nervous and that Beatty made him confused about what he knew before he walked through the door. Beatty was practically playing mind games with Montag by quoting books and I think this was his way of telling Montag that he knew about the books and that he was going down for it. He was practically warning Montag and he didn't notice that it was a warning until they arrived "in front of (Montag's) house" (pg.106). The ending of the chapter brings me to wonder many different things and leads me to think that Montag will be burned along with his wife and his books. His plan with Faber will be ruined.
ReplyDeleteMaria,
DeleteI agree with your praise of Bradbury for being so forward-thinking about technology and where we might end up as a society!
Now that we have read all of chapter two I feel we now can begin to develop a solid understanding and be able to make some solid guesses on what these people represent. I feel that a big development in this chapter was the interaction between Montag, Faber, and Captain Beatty. Montag begins to develop a mind of his own and is starting to have more adventurous thoughts. Therefore, he goes to see an old friend named Faber. I feel their conversation was a huge part of this novel and really sets the tone for what we may see next. Faber discusses how valuable knowledge is and how it sticks with you forever. A quote that shows this is when Faber says to Montag, "They say you retain knowledge even when you're sleeping, if someone whispers it in your ear." (89) This quote means that once you read something, such as the Bible in this case, you are able to regain that knowledge whenever you want because it sticks with you forever once it's cemented in your brain. I feel at this part of the novel Faber and Captain Beatty both represent an angel and the devil on Montag's shoulder. You have Faber who is encouraging Montag and supporting him to go against the grain and do what you want to do. Then you have Captain Beatty who preaches famous quotes and shows off his knowledge of books to Montag, but warns him to never own or read them. Montag is experiencing to different viewpoint here and he can only pick one. I feel he will go with his gut and follow up with Faber's idea.
ReplyDeleteThoughtful response, Christian: Montag is caught between two very different ways of viewing this society (Faber's and Beatty's).
DeleteI think the most important part of the story going forward will be the partner ship between Montag and Faber. this two are coming to together to work as one, each from the opposite lifestyle. one burns books and the other studies them. together there new partnership could lead to a great ending or cost both of them everything. Montag has already gone against his captain who gave him, who has tried to stop him. he now doesn't have any way to turn back now, Montag has burned his final bridge with his old way. Faber understands that working with Montag could be just as valuable has the books he carried with him
ReplyDeleteI found the most important developing part of the story is the newfound hope of saving the books and Guy's struggles against all that oppress him. Guy starts developing, creating his own ideas and thoughts about the world around him: "I don't want to change sides and just be told what to do. There's no reason to change if I do that"(88). I think he will start creating new ideas like this and also keep his own imagination going. Fabre will help guide him past Beattys confusion tactics against Guy, while also keeping him on task hopefully. I think that Guy's outbursts like we've seen with Mildred's friends will end up being his end because Fabre can't seem to control him.
ReplyDeleteI would agreee that Fabre has trouble controlling Montag but as the story wil go along, espeacially with the firemen being called to Montag's house, I feel like Montag will star to listen to Fabre more, and he will start to have more control of Montag's actions.
DeleteOne important idea of this story is how Montag has a "devil and angel" on his shoulders. Montag is being pulled in two different ways. Faber wants him to become pro books. He represents the angel. Faber is trying to help Montag realize that books are useful and help our society progress. On the other side, Beatty represents the devil. He is trying to convince Montag that books are evil and useless. He uses quotes to prove to Montag that they have no benefit to society. "Stick with the firemen Montag. All else is dreary chaos! Don't listen said Faber... he's trying to confuse"(103). In this quote we can see the struggle to gain Montag on both sides.
ReplyDeleteIn the middle and towards the end of the second chapter Montag has a conversation with Mildred and her friends. In this conversation they discuss many things including politics, and their views begin to anger Montag; Leading him to pull the plug of the wall televisions so the woman would take what he is talking about seriously. As their conversation continues he decides to read a poem to them, as he finishes reading to the ladies, the start to talk of how stupid he is to be in possession of the books. This leads to Montag losing his patience, and leads to him going off on Mrs. Bowles about her life. " 'Go home and think how it all happened and what did you ever do to stop it?' " (98). Skip a little bit more towards the end of the chapter and the firemen are called to an address that happens to be Montag's, I think that Mrs. Bowles reported the Montag's for being in possession of books at their home, because of how Guy Montag had treated her while at his house.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Bowles doesn't realize what she's done. People always want revenge on people who do them wrong, but Mrs. Bowles has just ruined the lives of not only Guy Montag, but whoever may get involved in this situation due to Montag's desperation.
DeleteI think between pulling out the cord to the ladies tv and then reading the poem to them, that montag is developing a dislike and hatred towards the way society works. By reading books and poems, he's going against the laws. Important quote: "Montag sensed it was a rhymeless poem. Then the old man grew even more courageous and said something else and that was a poem, too. Faber held his hand over his left coat pocket and spoke these words gently, and Montag knew if he reached out, he might pull a book of poetry from the man's coat. But he did not reach out. His hands stayed on his knees, numbed and useless. "I don't talk things, sir," said Faber. "I talk the meaning of things. I sit here and know I'm alive." Faber is influential to the ways that montag sees society and his opinion on it
ReplyDeleteMontag is not content. He is no longer just doing his job and living on this world. He is now a fugitive from himself. Trapped in a situation he's still trying to decide whether or not he wants to be in. With the death of Beatty, he now feels like he's in it or he's dead. He causes more fates similar to this or he meets it himself. Montag isn't ready to take on what he's already taken on and yet he continues to dig deeper than he should and learn things that he needs to but doesn't want to learn. A quote that i found intriguing was "I don't talk things, sir. I talk the meaning of things." - Faber. If I were given that quote without context, I could still feel what is going on with this person. I was amazed at this line. I sat and thought about it for hours. Not the context of it or why he said it but simply because of how humanizing it is of a thing to say. As long as you know you exist, you exist.
ReplyDelete